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Hot Topic (More than 8 Replies) Atmel Studio - Discussion (Read 28927 times)
Tim@Visual Micro
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Atmel Studio - Discussion
Nov 6th, 2012 at 6:38pm
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The plan is to add vm support to Atmel Studio which is based on Visual Studio but is free.

This thread is designed to allow us to discuss Atmel and I will also open up a list of Atmel issues using this thread as the work commences.

Feel free to help or state your ideas/concerns. 

The initial intention is to provide all of the current vm menus and options within the "Micro Explorer" which can be opened from any windows application.

If anyone knows how to access the Atmel Cpp service for a project within an extension this would be useful information. 

I don't intend to use the Atmel tool chain unless it is 100% arduino compatible. This means that the compiler will work in exactly the same way as the vs compiler (same shared code)

Intellisense and Cpp Project Settings - As I know it

Currently, we need to be able to configure the Atmel project properties when the arduino board is selected, we also need to add an include of a file that vm creates containing library and sketch info, finally we need to be able to set the c++ include directories. It is possible that atmel provides a different mechanism to make intellisense work which will also be okay.

The worst case scenario/alternative might be for vm to close and edit and re-open the project files (xml) when important arduino settings are changed.

Thanks!

Atmel Studio 6.1 is now supported by the standard visual studio plugin (may 2013)
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2013 at 3:03am by Tim@Visual Micro »  
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Evan
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #1 - Dec 18th, 2012 at 4:40pm
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I've spent the last couple weeks logging stick time with Atmel Studio 6 and I'm convinced the 'market' for VM/DT is there.  As supporting evidence, there are at least two 'customizations' which support Arduino development in Studio 6.  One is a three part 'tutorial' by Jaycon Systems located here:

http://www.jayconsystems.com/tutorial/atmerpt1/
http://www.jayconsystems.com/tutorial/atmerpt2/
http://www.jayconsystems.com/tutorial/atmel/

The other is by Omar Francisco, here:

http://omarfrancisco.com/arduino-programing-using-atmel-studio-6-0/

The Jaycon approach integrates the Ardo toolchain into Studio 6.  It's a checklist of labor intensive manual steps and is more a Proof of Concept than a turnkey installable.  The Francisco approach involves a downloadable zip which gets manually wired into Studio.  Both integrations have to be tweaked each time you change device type (UNO vs Nano, etc.) or COM port.

While I commend both authors for their efforts, I doubt that either approach will gather adherents in large numbers.  There is simply too much manual intervention required for context switching between projects.  And manual configuration means lots and lots and lots of support issues.  Businesses which attempt to sell technology to 'civilians' most often fail because they become overwhelmed by support calls.

The good news is that the shower of user comments on the Francisco page indicates market pressure for something 'better than' the Arduino IDE.  The Ardo IDE is a superb introduction to MCU development but making it approachable by newbies necessitates keeping it rather simple.

Banzi & Co. did a wonderful job of convincing artists and photographers that they can leverage modern technology without having to learn anything about "Computer Programming".  After gaining experience, however, there are likely to be developers who begin looking for more advanced development features - global search and replace; code management hooks; etc. - but who, for whatever reason, are reluctant to try Visual Studio.  This is the target market for VM.

From this it follows that VM needs to be as completely integrated with Studio 6 as it is with VS.  Users should be able to switch COM ports with a menu click-down, particularly one that shows which COM ports are currently connected.  They should similarly be able to select/change their device type with a drop down.  The Ardo libraries and user Sketchbook should be fully and seamlessly integrated.

Most of all, VM should be a single, turnkey install that requires no manual configuration.  We're not after the AVR Fanboys who use EMACS to balance their checkbooks.  We want the schoolteachers and graphic artists who are outgrowing sketches.  Download the VM installable, run it, and you're in business.

In short, the Visual Studio integration should serve as the design point for Studio 6.



  
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Evan
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2012 at 8:16pm
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I have to agree that Atmel's Studio 'strategy' is bewildering.  They've shipped two major releases without so much as a simulator, even as TI is practically giving away Launchpads in an effort to attract developers.  It may be that Atmel thinks they've already "won", or that they don't believe that independent developers represent a significant force in their market, or perhaps this is simply a reflection of an internal power struggle.

It wouldn't be the first time squabbling product managers set a company back.  There was a time when many senior Microsoft developers preferred Borland compilers to Microsoft C.  There was a perfectly horrible stink when that came to light and it ultimately resulted in a corporate priority shift towards Best in Class tools.

Whatever the case, Atmel has a history of abandoning features without warning or cause.  In the absence of a publicly committed API, any investment in reverse engineering their framework would risk being a total loss.

It's too bad, but you can hardly be blamed for putting your money elsewhere.

  
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Evan
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #3 - Dec 20th, 2012 at 10:30am
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Correction:  Atmel has shipped two major releases without so much as a simulator that supports stimulus files.
  
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Tim@Visual Micro
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #4 - Dec 20th, 2012 at 10:31pm
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Atmel have sent a new link that works. They have ramped up their web site and released an sdk.

I'll look into it early next year, after the "Due", Teensy work is complete and a few bugs fixed in the debugger.

Looks interesting now!
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #5 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 7:38pm
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Atmel Studio is not a very good IDE, but it has been my choice until now, because augmented with the GNU toolchain and avrdude, it lets me develop C projects as I used to, the standard way. The Arduino group did a super job bringing software development to a large public. Their AVR platform is cheap and very well designed and packaged, and it supports a wide range of shields.

However as frequently mentioned in the Arduino community, larger or more critical projects often require total control on initialisation, interrupts and access to registers. The avr-libc library provided by Atmel is more appropriate for these.

But the new debugger developed by vm is a definite milestone in AVR software development and the VisualStudio professional environment is much better than Atmel Studio. I think that it should not be limited to the arduino software environment.

I wonder if vm would eventually provide the best of both, with an option allowing more control on the build process, using other features of the GNU toolchain, like static libraries compiled separately.
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #6 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 8:37pm
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Hmmm Pierre, I like the way you think. It would surely be great to use VM in non Arduino mode as well. Lucky for us we have a very clever designer/coder working on VM. Smiley
  
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Davidh
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 10:50am
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I would like to ask if anyone else has found that their installation of Visual Micro in VSPro 2012 has been compromised by the later installation of another product which uses the VS 2012 Shell.

The effect was that Visual Studio support for Arduino was almost completely removed - I could neither open or create an Arduino Project,  the various File menu items for doing this were no longer there.

I had to remove the suspect product and then remove/reinstall VSPro to recover the functionality (the VS2012 Repair option was not successful).

I have my suspicions - but since no one else has raised this I may be mistaken and I need to look elsewhere.

Comments will be welcome
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2013 at 10:55am by Davidh »  
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gelius59
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 2:28pm
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Yes I experienced this.
Solvable problem as you.
No specific AVR STUDIO 5-6.
  
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Tim@Visual Micro
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 2:39pm
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Hi, might need a bit more info for this but here is some info that might help. It does sound like some vs config gets confused.

After the problem you might find that running the /resetaddin.

This reset re-creates the VM UI

Other than than there isn't anything special about the plugin install. 

However, if the program you are installing is atmel studio, then if arduino usb upload fails you should reinstall the usb drivers from the drivers folder below the arduino ide. If there is a usb problem I would expect both vm and arduino to have the same problem.

Please let us know how you get on


  
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Davidh
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 3:16pm
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Yes my problem does seem to associated with the installation of Atmel Studio 6.

The effect was that the Arduino Tool bar was removed (Arduino Boards Dropdown list/Arduino Help/ArduinoToolBarOptions) and I could not open any existing Arduino Project or File (the file browser would not recognize Arduino file and solution names). 

I do not think it was a USB (upload) problem - I could not get that far!.

I fear I do not have the half day to spare installing/removing Atmel Studio 6 and VS2012. Also if it is an interaction then you would need more information than I can possibly get.

I simply thought that the Visual Micro team would like to know of this possible interaction, which it appears others have also encountered.

  
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Tim@Visual Micro
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 4:02pm
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Hi David,

After install Atmel, try re-running the plugin installer and selecting repair?

The Atmel install should not affect vm, it didn't when I installed it but then I didn't have 2012 installed at the time. Atmel is 2010 so again should not affect 2012

It sounds like the plugin has been disabled. The repair should put it back.

If you still have problems please check Tools>Addin Manager and ensure that vm is active (ticked) in the list

Thanks
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #12 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 4:59pm
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OK - but on my system Atmel Studio 6 installed in VS2012 not VS2010.

So we are not quite on the same page!
  
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Tim@Visual Micro
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #13 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 5:08pm
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I didn't know they had updated it to 2012. Surprised they didn't change the version number. Anyway sounds like the resetaddin will do the job. There isn't much to the vm config, few registry settings then it uses the VS C++ object.

I assume you are installing atmel to a different location that your vs 2012 pro system? Probably a silly question  Smiley
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #14 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 7:47pm
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I am confused/embarrassed (in equal measures) - I reinstalled Studio 6 and it used VS2012 as its shell, and had no effect on the way VS2012 provided access to Visual Micro.

I also installed the Studio 6 Framework upgrades, all OK.

So what caused the problem remains a mystery.

Your time and attention/advice is much appreciated.

David
  
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Tim@Visual Micro
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #15 - Jan 11th, 2013 at 8:57pm
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Well you obviously had a problem so you are right to be confused  Smiley Thanks for letting us know it is okay. 

It is interesting to find out that Atmel uses whichever ide is available. Thanks!
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #16 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 8:21pm
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Tim
What will be the advantage to work in Atmel Studio? Today I started a project wanting to use a UC32L0. I have all the required tools to work with AS. I have an AVRICE and an AVRISP and a SAM-ICE and a dev board for UC32, Sam3 and Sam4. Still after a couple of hours and numerous restarts of AS, I finally gave up (again) and decided I will never use AS again. I am looking at the DUE or the TEENSY3.0 to get the performance that I want. I hope that more cortex devices will be made available to the Adruino framework soon.

It is sad but I cannot for the life of me think why I should use it again.
  
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Re: Atmel Studio - Discussion
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2013 at 8:46pm
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I have not used the Teensy3.0 just yet but I am busy reading up on the MCU before I decide to go the route.
I can live with the 3v issue of the Due as  I have not designed the hardware yet. For that matter, the Teensy looks like a better option but it does not have the same power as the Due.

I will more than likely wait for the Due stuff to become available and then go with the Due. I hope to be able to port what I did on the Mega to the Due.

admin edit: Atmel Studio 6.1 is now supported by the standard visual studio plugin (may 2013)
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2013 at 3:07am by Tim@Visual Micro »  
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