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Can still seemingly goof up IDE location (Read 1158 times)
dok
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Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Dec 2nd, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
From the vMicro menu, General, Configure Arduino IDE locations(s), the popup still opens with the wrong value.
A casual "Enter" doesn't change the setting, which is just as confusing.
Please show the dialog with current values for the settings instead of background "magic" on closing.
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« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2019 at 12:55pm by dok »  
 
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dok
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #1 - Jan 28th, 2020 at 9:38pm
 
I know this dialog does not select the IDE per se, but instead provides settings for each of the available IDEs, which one gets used is chosen elsewhere, but still when opening it there should be by default the IDE selection that one is working with. If it's not, one easily copy&pastes optional board manager URLs for the wrong IDE selection, for instance. I just "feels" broken the way it is right now.
Also, the overlapped invisible broken text next to the dropdown never got fixed.
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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2020 at 9:39pm by dok »  

idelocation.png (31 KB | )
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2020 at 9:56pm
 
Yes it needs some redesign. Firstly into WPF from win forms so that scaling works properly. There are a lot of high res monitors and the current sizes are a sort of middle ground so at least the window can be used in all cases.

At the same time maybe a redesign so that all ides are visible to the left. The available selection more obvious and the current focused app also more obvious.

Did you try dropping down the application list and selecting <Configure Locations>? That option is in tune with the current selection. The option you are clicking is designed to prompt new users to the recommended location.

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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:24pm
 
This one's opened via (see screenshot). Going to this menu item, either from top-level menu Extensions->vMicro, or the toolbox vMicro menu, is the shortest path to get there, when no Arduino project is open.
If one is open, I know that the IDE drop-dop combo box (if configured as visible, that is) is an even shorter path, and that this selects the current IDE as default in the pop-up dialog. Still, I can't believe fixing this default selection for all cases that open the "Configured IDE Locations" pop-up window, is hard to do.
The layout fixes are just the icing on the cake in my opinion.
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:31pm by dok »  

 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #4 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:30pm
 
Sorry I was not clear. That option is by design but you are using the wrong option.

If you drop down the list of apps where you can see Visual Micro (No IDE), there is the <Configure> option which relates to the selected item in that same list.

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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #5 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:40pm
 
'Think I changed my text while you were typing, I tried to clarify what I am asking for:

If an Arduino project is open, I know that the "Micro boards" drop-down combo box (if configured as visible, that is - the name is quite misleading, don't you think), "<configure IDE locations>", is an even shorter path, and that this opens with the current IDE as default in the pop-up dialog. Still, I can't believe fixing this default selection for every case that opens the "Configured IDE Locations" pop-up window, is hard to do.
The layout fixes are just the icing on the cake in my opinion.
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:42pm by dok »  
 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #6 - Jan 29th, 2020 at 6:23pm
 
Thhe configure option is in the Micro Apps combox not the boards. Your screen shot shows the apps list at the top of the vMicro menu. You can not see the General options menu without first seeing the apps and board list.

It makes sense to drop the apps list down and configure based on the current selection.

The option you mention is for people to configure a new ide location if one is not configured.
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #7 - Jan 30th, 2020 at 11:39am
 
No.
The drop-down is part of what's called "micro boards" in the toolbar configuration. That is where you said I should select "<Configure IDE Locations>".
I would attach the screenshot, but that option seems to have vanished...
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #8 - Jan 30th, 2020 at 11:46am
 
Additonally, no matter what you intended the menu item (in vMicro drop-down menu / General) to be used for, it doesn't disappear after first setup (which can be done in any of the other ways that the pop-window can be reached, either), but I find it very confusing that despite a selected different IDE this dialog opens to "Arduino 1.6/1.8" and thus hides the active settings, until I remember which IDE I have configured and manually adjust the drop-down. Having the right additional BSP path, for the current IDE selection, displayed by default is useful in any situation, seeing something else, no matter what the original intention might have been for that design decision, makes no sense.

Is this hard to change, I mean, all the other ways to get to the pop-up window are not blocked for the first-time setup, beginning user, etc., and there a sensible default selection is done, so why not have this consistent across ALL cases, PLEASE?
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« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2020 at 11:49am by dok »  
 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #9 - Jan 30th, 2020 at 12:49pm
 
I've found a way to upload images Smiley
So, to clarify. You said, quote "The configure option is in the Micro Apps combox not the boards".
But, clearly, the Micro Apps combobox is part of the Micro boards toolbox item, and that's what I correctly identified by name, least because that is the atomic unit one can switch on or off from the toolbar configuration menu of VS.
But, nevermind, through this path the default IDE location is set correctly in the pop-up dialog, I'm complaining about the default that's set in the very same box if it get's opened via the vMicro menu in the toolbar, General, Configure Arduino IDE Location(s).
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« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2020 at 12:56pm by dok »  
 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #10 - Jan 30th, 2020 at 4:09pm
 
The <Configure> in the Micro Apps combox box is designed to open the currently selected IDE. The General>Configure menu is designed to prompt users to install an IDE.

It causes huge support issues when users work with the "No IDE" option because  Arduino code that works in the Arduino IDE but relies on IDE libraries will fail to compile. Most users do not understand that soem libraries are instaleld by default with the Arduino IDE therefore the "No IDE" option offers less compability except for users with advanced knowlege of how an what to install from a libraries perspective.

The No IDE option is not the recommended route but it requires zero configuration which is why it is on by default when you install Visual Micro and statys selected if you click cancel on the locations dialog having not entered an IDE path. There are other benfits to having the Arduino IDE installed but having a default set of libraries is most important for the masses.

I think how it works is right. The option you needed to use was the one in the Micro Apps list.

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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #11 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 7:41am
 
Dear Tim,
I understand what you are telling me, perhaps I am mistaken in the amount of persistance of the settings that are behind the IDE preselected in the pop-up window, but to be sure, it would surprise me if a fresh installation with no user choice for IDE can't be told apart from a finished setup where the user has set the IDE. Like, the other paths that lead to the pop-up dialog, do they just always default to "Visual Micro/No IDE", or do they "know" what's being worked with?
I would expect the latter, and then it's only just to open the pop-up in each and every case to that setting the user settled on, which is whatever IDE location that was last chosen and persisted.
Really, there is no sense in opening the very identical dialog with different defaults depending on which path lead us there.
I never doubted that having the fresh-install default, before user choice and persisting that, be Arduino 1.6/1.8.
I hope I am making myself clear, the matter is a bit complicated, obviously.
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« Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2020 at 7:46am by dok »  
 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #12 - Feb 5th, 2020 at 11:19pm
 
Consider a user has the micro platform explorer open select with Application A and the code editor board selector is also open looking at application B.

The ide location button on the platform explorer opens the ide locations with Application A selected

The editor applications list has the option to configure ide location which correctly selects Application B

The "general > ide locations" prompts to configure an ide that is not yet configured.

If you are using the no ide option then surely the only thing you ever do when opening the ide locations window is set json urls? If you change the json urls then surely you then open the platform explorer to add/remove board packages? If Yes then I recommend you use the "IDE Locations" button on the platform explorer to set the json urls.

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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #13 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 6:49am
 
It's not about finding one or more ways about getting where and what I want to set, but it's about the principle of least surprise. I can attest to it that I use the "vMicro/General" menu all the time, rescanning toolchain an libraries from there. See, I work on the ESP8266 core a lot. Thus, "Configure Arduino IDE Location(s)" from the same menu, is a natural decision, not something that have to search for. It's also the one direct step that does not risk goofing up some other settings by a slip of the mouse or the likes.
I don't understand your refusal to bring up the "Configure IDE Locations" pop-up dialog with the same selection that the other places for making that selection always do.

It's not about treating "No IDE" (if that's the fresh install default) as a special case, it's about consistency, I can't stand it having to read ever corner of a GUI to make sure what I am seeing is correct, if by all indications - very same pop-up dialog that exists for a single purpose - it should display the same information.

To turn the question on its head, because you have me seriously wondering now, if someone has two IDE that they are working with side-by-side (I use Visual Micro(No IDE), but also have Arduino IDE installed, that may be configured differently), then surely you can relate to how confusing it is having sketchbook and/or boards manager settings displayed that may or may not be the ones in effect just by dropping by in a dialog. And does the current IDE selection on closing the pop-up window effect the working/active IDE settings back in VS? No matter, automatically opening to the most recent selection exactly the same in each path that the pop-up can be opened, is POLS, what it is right now, is confusing.

EDIT: OH NO, there's actually more broken than I'd expected.
Menu vMicro/IDE vs. vMicro/Visual IDE Explorer, they keep a separate value for the current IDE! So one has to be extra aware when looking at BSPs, libs etc. even at that level.
You are not going to tell me that this is OK either?
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2020 at 7:29am by dok »  
 
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #14 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 1:02pm
 
I agree the micro explorer needs a bit of work but changnig the platform in the platform explorer probably should not affect the current project because otherwise you would need to reselect a different board. It needs some thought.
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #15 - Feb 13th, 2020 at 2:14pm
 
Thanks at this time, for "fighting" this out with me. Can you suggest how long I should wait for you to revisit this, hopefully with insights that will mostly make my way of using the IDE as straightforward as I'd like it to be?
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2020 at 4:48pm
 
It's difficult to prioritize this issue because you still have not explained why you are using the General menu when there are so many other more convient ways to do same, that work the way you want and entail less clicks.  Because you are using the NoIDE option I am failing to understand the exact workflow of what you are doing. I have assumed rightly or wrongly that you are using the General option to change bsp .json paths, what process do you follow after making those changes? Obviously making the changes has no immediate effect on the IDE, so I am trying to understand what you do next ?
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #17 - Feb 14th, 2020 at 10:24am
 
Did you pay attention to my "EDIT" above?
So: yes, changing/reviewing the correctness of the BSP path setting is the reason for opening the pop-up window.
The number of clicks or the convenience of which approach I am taking depends on where exactly in the UI I was at the time, so please don't make judgements on whether or not I am taking a more complicated approach or not in each case.
The POLS is universal, and keeping in mind the finding in my "EDIT", one always has to make extra sure that the BSP path one is just checking, or altering, applies to the "IDE" one is also using.
There are a few performance and quality problems with the "Installed" and "Manage Boards" modes in "Micro Explorer", it flickers, comes up empty, and in any case requires clicking refresh, rescan, "check for updates" multiple times. Sometimes it has a bug and changes into the documentation view, too.
Therefore, I keep checking that the IDE and the BSP json paths were not somehow forgotten, and when in this case the IDE pre-selection is not the correct one, it's just another hassle.
I don't keep a checklist by my side when working with VisualMicro for VS Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #18 - Feb 14th, 2020 at 1:08pm
 
Did you pay attention to my first response? Smiley
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Re: Can still seemingly goof up IDE location
Reply #19 - Feb 22nd, 2020 at 1:23pm
 
Sure I did, that's what I tried to explain, there's no single use case that I need a better explanation of how to do this, but that there's a creeping feeling of bugs when each time I inspect the BSP paths (et cetera), one way or another what is shown on screen is not what I expect or want.
Probably what we disagree on is user guidance, but I am affirmative that "No IDE" is not only an indicator for "not setup yet", but a major use case for VS users, because I don't want the bloody-beginners Arduino (in Java!) on my system. You know there are bugs in VisualMicro - please consider opening the pop-up with different initial settings that depend on from where it gets opened, one of those bugs, and not a feature.
PS. I didn't mean to sound harsh w.r.t. "did you pay attention", I was just asking you to look back in history to check what I had added to the comment, sorry if it came across badly.
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